Apple Fails. Here’s Why: Late 2008 Macbook Pro Screen Flicker Problem - jan 7
Apple products are rather popular these days, and by popular I mean they have more fans than a billionaire throwing his money on the streets. There’s good reason for Apple products to be popular: they look good and they are extremely well manufactured. Or at least, they should be, considering the price you pay for them.
My “late 2008” MacBook is not behaving anything like a well manufactured product, yet I did pay a well manufactured price for it, no more than two years ago. I’m one out of many thousands of Apple users out there that have the so called Macbook Pro Screen Flicker Problem. Search on Google for those terms and you’ll find countless forums where users are complaining about the same issue over and over again.
Here’s a short video someone has taken which clearly demonstrates the issue:
Even on the Apple.com MBP forums, the number one most viewed and replied to post is the one about this issue. Since 2007 already there have been posts about this issue, yet Apple itself doesn’t seem to care about the problem at all.
Normally I don’t use my blog to post about problems I’m experiencing - I use my Twitter account for that ;) - nor do I write my posts in English most of the time. Perhaps this is my way to try to focus some attention on the problem and ventilate my Mac frustrations here.
To make this post more than just a rant about how Apple is failing in delivering great experiences to me and many others, here are findings and so called “fixes” I found surfing the web in search of a solution:
Screen flickering doesn’t happen on the Nvidia 9600 GPU
The screen flicker problem only seems to happen when running on the nvidia 9400 GPU, not on the 9600 GPU. You can choose to use the 9600 GPU by selecting “Higher Performance” in your “Energy Saver” preferences. This will log you out of MacOS and then the system will use the newly selected GPU.
This may sound like good news, but the truth is that the 9600 GPU heats up your machine more than the 9400. Also, it will drain your battery considerably faster.
One way to automatically switch to the 9400 when running on battery and back to the 9600 when plugged into the power net is to use a tool called gfxCardStatus. It’s free and on top of that it allows you to switch GPU’s without logging out. Very convenient indeed.
This all sounds great except for the battery life but I have another problem which only occurs when I’m using the 9600 GPU. The screen flickering problem goes away but my system tends to freeze up completely at random when running in “higher performance” mode.
I teach web design to students in college and it’s a real pain in the ass to have your system crash multiple times during a class. Only a hard reboot will help and getting into my flow again takes up a lot of valuable time, which of course is very annoying for my students as well.
Failed “Solution #1”: Hardware Test
Some people suggest that you run a hardware test. I ran mine from the MacOS installation disk and nothing wrong was found on my system. Also, verifying disk permissions and scanning for hard drive errors didn’t solve a thing.
Failed “Solution #2”: Clean Install
While I haven’t done a clean install myself, others have confirmed that this didn’t help solve the problem.
Failed “Solution #3”: Logic Board Replacement
A decent number of people on the Apple.com forums went to the Genius bar to get their Mac “fixed”. They received one or multiple logic board replacements, hard drive replacements, screen replacements, all without solving the screen flickering problem.
Failed “Solution #4”: Resetting the SMC/PRAM
I’ve tried pulling the battery out and pushing the power button to clear all current from the macbook. After that I also tried to reset the PRAM by pressing option+cmd+P+R simultaneously while booting. Both suggestions have no effect.
Is it a hardware failure then?
If it’s a hardware failure, Apple should take responsibility by posting at least an official statement about the issue. If they can’t release a firmware update which fixes the problem, in my opinion they should do some sort of a re-call to get any faulty chip replaced.
Then again, perhaps Apple products are so popular these days that it isn’t necessary anymore to keep all users happy. For every one user they loose, there are probably 10 in line to spend four digits on new hardware.
What’s your opinion about this? Am I overreacting or do you feel the same. Let me know in the comments.
If anyone has the same problem as described above, please contact apple on their public feedback form so at least we can put some pressure on them, even when it’s only a little.
PS: this post was written on my 5 year old Windows desktop computer, which has never failed me before ;)
Community Updates
Here are some updates taken from the comments below:
- the issue occurs on macOs Snow Leopard 10.6.6
- the issue occurs on macOs 10.5.8 (Thanks Bill Spears)
- Apple again removed all links to this and other blog posts from their support forums
More links reporting the late 2008 Macbook screen flicker problem
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=991612
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10329923-263.html
http://www.macobserver.com/
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2230728
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2634980
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJMuYneBLLE
43 commentaren geserveerd
You’re absolutely right. I have the same model and it is doing the same thing. The slowdown on the 9600 is not widely reported but it makes the thing unusable sometimes. Not only is Apple’s silence on this a travesty but on the forums posts mysteriously disappear.
Hi John, thanks for your message. One of my posts has been removed on the apple forum after complaining about the issue. That’s also one of the reasons why I’ve decided to write about this on my own blog. Let’s hope someone in charge notices…
A friend had this same problem. Issue was google chrome. Have you checked the system logs?
I have chrome installed, but I’m not using it to browse the web, so I don’t think that’s the cause? The flickering happens when I’m not surfing as well…
@Sam: just to be sure, I removed Chrome completely from my system but the problem persists. Some things point in the direction of a macOs kernel extension that has been changed in 10.6.5
very good write up, I am having this issue with my macbook pro. I hope apple does something.
Hi, just so you know I have the OS 10.5.8 and I have the same problem with flickering.
The apple store wants me to pay about 700 euros to change components. As read on the apple thread it isn’t even sure that it is going to fix the problem.
I also have the same problem (10.5.8). You summarised it very well. Thanks also for starting this blog, as the Apple discussion thread is now useless as the moderators delete all posts in which we try to organise as a group to present our case. Despite being asked Apple also do not want to help compile the statistics on this issue. I would like to present them with the data so they can size the problem and decide a solution. We should at least get some financial compensation on our next model. We need a simple way to collect email, serial number, OS, whether repaired to solve this and whether repair was effective. Armed with this data we might have some clout. Anyone got a way to collect such data (there seem no sites out there to do it, surprisingly, as it must be a common need). An opportunity for fame for someone?
And as a postscript, I see that Apple have deleted now your post pointing at this site.
How very constructive of them.
Thanks Bill for the feedback! I updated the post with your findings. Apple does indeed remove links towards users complaint blogs stating that they are “nonconstructive”. Please send all your feedback and problems to Apple using their public feedback on http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html
Thanks for the feedback link, let’s see if that works. I’ll post it over onto the discussion, too. They might not delete a link to themselves and approved means of communications.
yes, perhaps ask in the most visited posts to put this link up in the question/first post itself, not at the end of a 65 page discussion :). Thanks for helping out!
Thanks for the post.
I filed a complaint with the BBB and received an email from Apple today saying they want to talk to me.
Yes, someone from apple on the west coast is going to call me and talk about my filed complaint.
The call is scheduled for 12 noon ( Toronto, Canada ).
I’ll keep you posted.
In the mean time file your complaints.
Here’s the link.
http://sanjose.bbb.org/ComplaintDetail.aspx?CompanyID=0000198239
Thanks for helping out Tony. Unfortunately I’m in Belgium, not in the USA so I can’t file a complaint there. Please keep us updated about your progress and good luck!
goodbytes, I was looking through other discussions on Apple and I am very surprised that the 9400m screen flicker discussion has your posts to this all over the place and in the 64 page discussion they were intent on deleting it.
Tony, how’d the call go? Did you file the complaint about the hardware or did you also talk about the censorship when trying to get help?
Hello to all, (post 1 of 2)
This is what I posted on the bbb link above.
Btw, I live outside the U.S. and my complaint was acknowledged. It’s worth a try even if you’re in a different region.
“Complaint Classification:
Complaint Description - Posted 1/18/2011 2:03:55 PM
Blinking of the screen on my MacBook pro. Very annoying especially when having clients during a presentation. For an expensive MacBook pro for business, it sure performs and seems very un-PRO-sessional. This is not the way I like to do business and nor should Apple Computer. We are trying to make a living and this apple tool is preventing me to do so.
Complaint Summary
MacBook pro screen blinks. Very unPROfessional.
Resolution Sought
Acknowledge the problem and fix the thousands of us with this problem. http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1807105”
(post 2 of 2)
After filing my complaint, I received a call today and just got off the phone.
The apple ‘Corporate Executive Relations’ representative asked me some questions about my complaint.
Why I filed? When the problem started? What peripherals are connected to the machine? When and at what frequency the blinking occurs? and so on and so on.
I answered the questions and reiterated the forum thread, where he could find more answers about our situation.
Anyways, they obviously take any complaints to the bbb very serious and has launched an investigation into the matter with the engineering department.
He promised to get back to me no later than Tuesday with any findings.
We’ll see. Small steps to a big problem.
I’ll keep you posted.
Tony, you’re doing some amazing work here. Let’s wait for the call on tuesday so we can think of way to get this issue solved! If that doesn’t help I’m filing a complaint with bbb and the local customer protection agency in Belgium. I advice all of us to take action as good as we can. Keep it up guys!
Thanks,
I just noticed your post on the forum was removed.
There’s gotta be a better way to get people to file a bbb complaint.
Very frustrating.
Talk to you all on Tuesday.
Sign me up as another person affected by this issue.
Hi Lane, can you let us know what version of macos you are on? And are you on the late 2008 MBP?
Same problem here. The strange thing is that it didn’t happen before I upgraded to Snow Leopard. Somehow Snow Leopard doesn’t like the late 2008 Macbook Pro’s with the 9400 GPU enabled. If only Apple would respond to this, but instead we get a deafening silence from them, outrageous!
Like everyone else i am on same boat as the screen flickr. It only appear on the 9400m, so I have to use the 9600m gt 100% of the time. Like you said the 9600m gt would sometime cause the system to stale or crash.
My apple care is long gone, hopefully apple has some solution for us. I am still in college, so its gonna be awhile before i get a new laptop.
Thank you for blog post!
I should also file a complain to the BBB
thanks Tijl & Simon for sharing. Please send your problem report and a link to this post or to the discussion on the apple.com forums to Apple through their feedback form which is here http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbookpro.html so at least we put some pressure on them.
I’ll join in to confirm both the flickering problem when running the 9400 and the 9600 freezing problem on my unibody (december 2008) MacBook Pro 15”.
As I recall, it wasn’t there from the beginning. It occured later, after some of the updates late 2009 or early 2010.
I am also having a lot of presentations and training sesssion and have to choose between a flickering demonstration or one with high risk of freezing. None of them is good advertising for Apple.
spielbrot, that’s exactly the same issue and hardware as mine. I can choose to teach in school with a screen flickering on the 9400 or go with the 9600 and risk a freezing system in front of a full class. Both have happened multiple times.
I have just posted my feedback to Apple too, having the same issue (flicker on Late 2008 MBP). Hope something happens, at last!
It is indeed rather embarrassing the way Apple is (non-)dealing with this rather serious design issue.
wish i had waited for the second addition of the mbp
Hi, I´m having the same flickering problem, using Leopard. I was going to update to snow Leopard, but after reading about this problem, i rather don´t update at all. A pity, i wanted to use the “better” and newer OS. It seems that Snow Leopard makes things worse.
The flickering thing is very random, some days is more intense than others, been using control FAN SMC to make things cooler, without any changes..... it seems that Apple doesn´t care at all, now that their business is growing....shame on them.
I don´t have apple care, i still think they should repair it for free.
I feel completely the same way MartinTC. Make sure that you send in your complaint to http://www.apple.com/feedback so that at least apple receives these issues in their mailbox. Even if they don’t care…
I’m experincing the same problem with flickering!
I have a macbookpro MacBookPro5,1
Intel Core 2 Duo
Same problem the blinking , i hope apple does a recall lets go to current affair and see if they can expose apples issues .
Tony, any updates? I’m assuming that you meant that you were supposed to hear from Apple by Tuesday, 1/25/11.
I didn’t realize this problem was so widespread until I started looking. I have to admit, though, that I don’t recall this happening earlier on my late 2008 MBP. I only really noticed it over the past couple months, but my memory may be off. I certainly don’t recall it in 2009.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=13065597#13065597
Here’s a later post in the forum to help focus efforts to put pressure on apple to solve this. Please all sign up there:
pudge77 posted “Re: MacBook Pro screen blinks” in “MacBook Pro screen blinks” on Feb 21, 2011 1:28:21 PM.
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Hey everyone. I’ve only got about five signatures on my petition so far. Just in case you missed my post above. Here is the link again.
Go to http://ambiguus.com/applescreens
Hopefully people aren’t missing it because of other posts pushing it up. I’m sure there are more than five or six people checking out this post. We need a lot more signature. If you add any posts to this forum, feel free to include my petition URL to keep it fresh on the forum listings. Pass the word along to anyone you know having MBP screen problems on 2008 or higher MBPs.
Thanks for your write app. I’ve started noticing the problem, too (yes, very late, but I haven’t been using the MBP a lot during the last months.)
Unfortunately, the problem persists on Lion (Golden master). But setting the card to 9600 apparently “solves” the problem.
Yes, time to fill a complaint, I think. Or writing to Apple first.
My MacBook Pro (running the 9400) has just started doing this. Has anyone had any resolution on this problem???
My MBP is 15” unibody (december 2008).
Apple replaced the logic board 2 times and replaced LCD 1 times, but the screen still flicker or blink.
The issue occurs on macOs 10.7.2
I went to Apple and had them check out my computer and was told the blinking is “normal”, however the problem began a few months ago. If it were normal why did it not do this from the very beginning?
Hey Lin, Ice and janet. I encourage you to file a complaint as this is clearly a malfunction in the graphics card chipset or logic board. Of course Apple will not be happy to hear that, but they should listen to you as a paying client and fix any defects that are not the result of normal wear & tear. Apple fixed mine after several attempts and their service has been great, but I have to say that only an official complaint (with the BBB) will put them to action.
Yes! Apple has a firmware update ready that “should” fix the problem. Go to your software updates and install the firmware fix to see if it helps: http://www.macgasm.net/2012/02/29/apple-updates-2008-macbook-pro-efi-firmware-addresses-screen-flickering/
Mate a firmware update just came out for this. You probably should have it via Software Update. Can’t believe it took them this long and they didn’t even recognise the fact there was a problem until now. I almost spent $1200 to get it fixed. Thank god I waited.
Thanks Ryan, yes they just put out a firmware update for this problem. I have installed it and will see if the problem is solved now. Good news!